IBIS Macromodel Task Group Meeting date: 24 August 2010 Members (asterisk for those attending): Adge Hawes, IBM * Ambrish Varma, Cadence Design Systems * Anders Ekholm, Ericsson * Arpad Muranyi, Mentor Graphics Corp. Barry Katz, SiSoft * Bob Ross, Teraspeed Consulting Group Brad Brim, Sigrity Brad Griffin, Cadence Design Systems Chris Herrick, Ansoft Chris McGrath, Synopsys Danil Kirsanov, Ansoft David Banas, Xilinx Deepak Ramaswany, Ansoft Donald Telian, consultant Doug White, Cisco Systems * Eckhard Lenski, Nokia-Siemens Networks Eckhard Miersch, Sigrity Essaid Bensoudane, ST Microelectronics * Fangyi Rao, Agilent Ganesh Narayanaswamy, ST Micro Gang Kang, Sigrity Hemant Shah, Cadence Design Systems Ian Dodd, consultant Jerry Chuang, Xilinx Joe Abler, IBM * John Angulo, Mentor Graphics John Shields, Mentor Graphics Ken Willis, Sigrity Kellee Crisafulli, Celsionix Kumar Keshavan, Sigrity Lance Wang, Cadence Design Systems Luis Boluna, Cisco Systems Michael Mirmak, Intel Corp. * Mike LaBonte, Cisco Systems Mike Steinberger, SiSoft Mustansir Fanaswalla, Xilinx Patrick O'Halloran, Tiburon Design Automation Paul Fernando, NCSU Pavani Jella, TI Radek Biernacki, Agilent (EESof) * Randy Wolff, Micron Technology Ray Komow, Cadence Design Systems Richard Mellitz, Intel Richard Ward, Texas Instruments Samuel Mertens, Ansoft Sam Chitwood, Sigrity Sanjeev Gupta, Agilent Scott McMorrow, Teraspeed Consulting Group Shangli Wu, Cadence Design Systems Sid Singh, Extreme Networks Stephen Scearce, Cisco Systems Steve Kaufer, Mentor Graphics Steve Pytel, Ansoft Syed Huq, Cisco Systems Syed Sadeghi, ST Micro Ted Mido, Synopsys Terry Jernberg, Cadence Design Systems * Todd Westerhoff, SiSoft Vladimir Dmitriev-Zdorov, Mentor Graphics Vikas Gupta, Xilinx Vuk Borich, Agilent * Walter Katz, SiSoft Wenyi Jin, LSI Logic Zhen Mu, Mentor Graphics ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Opens: - none -------------------------- Call for patent disclosure: - none ------------- Review of ARs: - Arpad: Send updated definition clarification BIRD to Mike for posting - Done - Arpad: Write parameter passing syntax proposal (BIRD draft) for -AMS models in IBIS that is consistent with the parameter passing syntax of the AMI models - TBD: Propose a parameter passing syntax for the SPICE - [External ...] also? - TBD - Arpad: Review the documentation (annotation) in the macro libraries. - Deferred until a demand arises or we have nothing else to do ------------- New Discussion: Arpad asked for comments on the IBIS-AMI Definitions BIRD - Bob: There is more in here than just definitions - For example a rule about character content - Arpad: Should we call it definitions and rules? - We had a list of questions that needed to be answered - Walter: Maybe this could be a "side document" - Arpad: It has to become part of the spec - Walter: The BIRD could say that more will be added later - Bob: The question is whether we do it or the IBIS committee - This is our first set of BIRDs using a different form - Arpad: We broke it into smaller BIRDs to make better progress - We should not bog this down with all needed changes - Bob: Do we expect IBIS to vote on each or when all are submitted - Arpad: They can take them as they see fit - Bob: We need to resolve the string issues - Walter: Should we have rule that labels and param values can't span lines - We could have another type for it - We should leave it as is and achieve closure - Radek: This is missing some needed corrections Walter showed a version of the IBIS-AMI Definitions BIRD with updates - This was updated Aug 17 - Walter moved that we accept this BIRD as is - Arpad seconded, but there was no immediate vote - John: In ANSI C "e" is not allowed in integers - Mike: A preprocessor could convert them - Walter: It should not be passed that way to the DLL - John: It may be simpler to not allow "e" in .AMI files too - Bob: Presumably we are doing type conversions anyway when scanning these in - Arpad: Scott was concerned about needing a lot of zeroes AR: Arpad send re-updated definition clarification BIRD to Mike for posting Arpad showed an email commenting on the AMI flows: 1) - Step 6b is not clear about "Rx filter" - Walter: You could suggest more specific wording - It would be best to have graphics, but that is not allowed - Arpad: Michael Mirmak should weigh in on that 2) - Arpad: In step 7 what if there is no clock tick at all? - Walter: We can delete the word "returns" - Fangyi: A separate sentence could say it also returns clock ticks. - Arpad made that change 3) - Arpad: In step 6b how can the user choose not to employ optimization? - The model controls this - Walter: The recommendation is to add a boolean option for this 4) - Arpad: This may have an incorrect condition listing - Walter: Ken added this 5) - Arpad: How can a user change GetWave_Exists to False? - Tools may or may not use the function - Walter: Change it to say the tool has to ignore GetWave - Mike: The tool could ignore the function even if it exists - The user would have to understand the model - Fangyi: The tool may not allow GetWave_Exists to change - Walter: It is a text file and can be changed - Fangyi: Would that make Init be regarded wrongly? - Ambrish should provide those as independent data - Walter: The AMI file should not be changed - The tool could provide means to override it - Todd: The AMI file is not meant to be edited - Arpad: Tools should not have a GUI to override the model - Users should edit the text with full knowledge on the risks 6) - Todd: Where does the double counting come from? - Ambrish: Tx Init is passed to Rx Init and Tx GetWave double counts - Arpad: Who is this sentence talking about? - Todd: The simulator needs to deconvolve as needed - Or it can avoid the case - Arpad: I posted this email some time ago but it hasn't been discussed - Walter: Ken needs to address this - AR: Walter and Todd discuss email items 5 & 6 with Ken Next meeting: 31 August 2010 12:00pm PT -------- IBIS Interconnect SPICE Wish List: 1) Simulator directives